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When I think of Meghan Trainor I always think of the fact that she installed his-and-hers toilets so she and her husband could answer the call of nature side by side. That comes off…phenomenally codependent at best. And she’s also insulted the entire profession of teaching, what a peach. She puts her foot in her mouth, overshares, and generally comes off arrogant to me. But I’ll give her credit for bringing her brother on her podcast to talk about getting Botox. It’s hard to pin down exact numbers in the industry but more men are trying out Botox, lasers, and other minimally invasive skincare procedures. Meghan convinced her brother Ryan, who is 33, to get Botox from the same doctor she goes to. He had some wrinkles that Botox won’t smooth away entirely but it can make them softer looking. Ryan said it hurt a lot which made me laugh–everyone’s pain tolerance is difficult but Botox didn’t hurt for me.

It was Meghan’s idea for her brother to get Botox: “Friends and family, I did it, there’s nothing I can’t do” Meghan, 29, responds. “Example A, I got Ryan to get Botox.”

In the episode, Ryan shares more about his decision to go through with the injections. He says it happened after he moved to Los Angeles, where he now lives with Meghan, her husband and their two kids — as well as their other brother Justin Trainor, 27.

“This is me now, dude, LA lifestyle, LA life, 30-plus you start jabbing your head,” Ryan says.

Meghan likes Botox because she wants to “freeze” herself in time: When he visited the plastic surgeon about the procedure, he explained, the doctor pointed out the sun damage on his face. She told him it would only get worse and gave him sunscreen to help prevent future damage.

“You can’t really do much about these lines that he’s already created on his face,” Meghan said. “But we can pause them here.”

Meghan said she has been getting her injections from the same doctor in Beverly Hills — they call her ”Dr. B” — for a couple of years. Botox, she says, is a blessing because it means that she’s “aging and hasn’t passed.”

“I just want to freeze myself right here, I want to look like this forever,” she says.

Botox was “very painful” for him: “Beauty is pain and it was very painful,” Ryan says. “I have a newfound respect for anyone that goes through this just to, you know, better themselves. It hurts. It’s many, many bee stings. I was unprepared for how many. I was like ‘Oh it’s probably like two shots.’”

“It was a lot of jabs,” he continues. “I would have been like ‘I don’t want that many jabs’ and she would have been like ‘Oh OK,’ and probably done it anyway. But thank you very much Meghan, you just want me to be better and I’m very blessed to have you in my life.”

[From People]

One small point of poetic justice (in a country with a gender pay gap and a pink tax) is that Botox is much more expensive for men because they need twice as many units. Their muscles are stronger so they need more for the Botox to work. But I’m glad men are talking more openly about it because there shouldn’t be any shame in getting these treatments. It’s become a “feminized” thing to get injectables but famous men have been getting them for a long time. Looking “young” is as important for Paul Rudd as it is for Nicole Kidman, but people think Paul Rudd just looks good because he’s a kind soul. I’m sure that’s a large part of his enduring appeal, but make no mistake, he’s probably getting a lot of the same things done as she is. (I just listed the first two celebrities I could think of who are close in age.) It would be great if celebrities of all genders were more honest about getting advanced beauty treatments, including the men. And it would be great if no one was shamed for it. As for how much it hurts, I’m always surprised to hear people say that they found Botox painful. Getting a flu shot is (to me) much worse than Botox, but they use really tiny needles.

Photos via Instagram and credit: CPA, PacificCoastNews / Avalon and Getty